assessment of sustainability of our forests

Southern Forest Resource Assessment

Below is the original wording of one of the preliminary questions and public suggestions or concerns submitted about it--for details see our Public Input or Methods pages
 
 

"What are the status and trends of forest management practices in the South?"

  1. Consider methods such as selective cut practices to replant harvested areas with many species of trees.
  2. The trends in forest management in the southeast (what percentage of cuts are clearcuts vs. select cuts and how has that changed over time? How many acres of forest were clearcut annually for the last 15 years?) The trend in cutting cycles/rotations and growth to removal ratios. The trend in pine conversion over the past 15 years. (What percentage of softwood and hardwood forests have been converted to pine plantations?)
  3. Overcutting of softwoods throughout the South.
  4. Increases in pine plantations, including the use of fertilizers, herbicides, and genetically engineered tree species. Shortened cutting cycles.
  5. What are the cumulative effects of loss of mature forested habitats from clearcutting?
  6. What are the potential long-term consequences of intensive pine management using increasingly shorter cutting cycles? What are the long-term consequences of the increasing use of genetically engineered species of trees in intensively managed pine plantations.
  7. We all agree that the impact of current logging practices is having significant impact on the conditions and nature of SE forests and watersheds associated with these regions.
  8. Documentation should include the comparisons of natural pine versus regenerated pine areas.
  9. What are the current forest productivity levels versus historic productivity? What may be future productivity levels? Are these levels of productivity sustainable? What might be the optimum level of sustainability under several management alternatives?
  10. What has been the effect of past harvesting practices on timber quality? What is the productive capacity of the southern landscape to produce fiber if managed based on proven silvicultural methods?
  11. We feel prevailing wisdom insinuates harvesting timber is the biggest threat to forest sustainability. If done correctly, harvesting timber combined with follow-up silvicultural treatments quite often leaves forest ecosystems more productive and healthy. Silviculture is one of the forestry community's best tools to proactively address forest health and sustainability issues.
  12. We do not need more monoculture pine farms, herbiciding, clearcutting, seedtree cutting, shelterwood cutting, salvage logging, SPB logging, soil baring, roading, and compaction by large machinery.
  13. An increased emphasis on shorter rotations, herbicide use, fertilizer use, burning to kill hardwoods, heavier and larger equipment, building more roads, using more tops and limbs of trees instead of leaving them for coarse woody debris, logging in riparian zones, even-age management, wood chipping, logging of hardwoods and bottomlands, and logging unsustainably by cutting more wood than is grown.
  14. How many cycles of pine-tree growth can a piece of land sustain before it gives out, the way an old cotton filed gives out? We've seen three and four cuttings now off one piece of land, but without heavy applications of harmful chemical fertilizers and pesticides, I don't see how a piece of land could withstand such a relentless harvesting. We rely on multiple rotations now, but I can't see how they will be sustainable.
  15. If you make a set of recommendations, please consider these: 1. It should be absolutely illegal to log old-growth of almost any species, but especially those in hardwood hammocks, cypress sloughs, gum swamps and upland pine flatwoods. And live oaks.
  16. For the sake of ecosystems, we must encourage selective tree forestry as opposed to destructive practices like clearcutting, bedding, herbiciding and wind-rowing.
  17. Long leaf pine production has a longer growing curve, but with practice of efficient forestry practices will benefit wildlife, and have a continuing forest resource forever.
  18. We are ripping through the forests of the South with our chainsaws and chip mills and no regard for the future, much less the beauty of things we destroy. The repercussions of non-restraint for our wildlife, health and local economies are dire. We do not have much in Tennessee if you take away the trees.
  19. Commercial logging should be specifically mentioned as a factor that has impacted our forests.
  20. Advanced silvicultural techniques can further increase production, while affording the opportunity to manage other forests for their special qualities and values. Intensive management on a few acres can also have the positive benefit of taking pressure off of natural areas (Sedjo & Bodkin, 1998). This, intensive forest management has its place in the range of forest management techniques that contribute to the goal of sustainable forestry. Assessment should identify current trends in increasing forest productivity on the best and most productive lands, and how forest managers are customizing forest management to manage forests for different uses and values.
  21. Assessment should also address how substantial investments in reforestation and plantation establishment by the private and public sector, and the accelerated growth and productivity of these forests, have contributed to the availability of commercial fiber and the conservation of other resource values.
  22. Regeneration of many NIPF lands is not occurring in a satisfactory manner.
  23. How will you include a look at the OVERALL effects of types of cutting practices? Will you be including an examination of the amount of clearcutting going on regionally? And the effects of each cutting method on the environment?
  24. Fire suppression and conversion to short-rotation pine species have significantly reduced the acreage of longleaf pine habitats.
  25. The proposed sustainability study address how short-rotation silviculture could be enhanced to incorporate some of the structural elements of later-successional forests.
  26. We recommend that the study examine silvicultural practices that would allow other pine species to be managed for the benefit of those fire-adapted communities.
  27. The study should investigate the future availability of bottomland hardwood nursery stock for reforestation and habitat restoration projects.
  28. Decrease the proportion of an ecoregion in plantations while increasing the species and genetic diversity of those plantations remaining.
  29. Attempt to increase the productivity of timber species, reducing the ration of net timber harvest to net annual growth.
  30. In relation to ecological sustainability, what are the status and trends in forest management?
  31. Assessment should also address how forest management improves habitat, wood quality and productivity of the overall southern forest resource.
  32. Advanced silvicultural techniques can increase volume in both pine and hardwood forests. Current trends should be identified to increase forest productivity on the best and most productive lands, and how forest managers are customizing practices for other cultural uses and values.
  33. The Southern Assessment should also address how forest management can both improve wildlife habitat, wood quality, and productivity of the overall Southern forest resource.
  34. Assessment should also address how substantial investments in reforestation and plantation establishment by the private and public sector, and the accelerated growth and productivity of these forests, have contributed to the availability of commercial fiber and the conservation of other resource values.
  35. Substantial opportunities exist to further increase timber volume through intensive forest management in both pine and hardwood forests. Advanced silvicultural techniques can further increase production, while affording toe opportunity to manage other forests for their special qualities and values. Intensive management on a few acres can also have the positive benefit of taking pressure off of natural areas (Sedjo & Bodkin, 1998). Assessment should identify current trends in increasing forest productivity on the best and most productive lands, and how forest managers are customizing forest management to manage forests for different uses and values. The Assessment should document the record of accomplishment of the various private and public sector efforts to improve reforestation and increase timber supplies that have resulted in positive reforestation and forest growth trends.
  36. Advanced silvicultural techniques have greatly improved forest productivity. The Assessment should reflect this improvement.
  37. Analyze how present forest management programs improve wildlife habitat, wood quality, and productivity of our forest resources.
  38. Document investments in reforestation and plantations by the public and private sector have contributed to more commercial fiber and the conservation of other resources.
  39. Improvements in the science and practice of forestry should be reported in detail.
  40. As forests are clear-cut and replanted to all pine or single species hardwood, biodiversity is lost and the quality of soil, air and water are challenged.
  41. How will you include past forest practices into your projections?
  42. As recently as the turn of the century, one-hundred-plus-foot pines blanketed America from the Atlantic Ocean to the Mississippi River. Very Little virgin forest remains in Georgia and it is VITAL that what is left be preserved as a precious resource.
  43. Several studies show that the detrimental effects of clearcutting are long lasting and possibly irreversible. One shows that southern Appalachian forests fail to recover the full complement of their ground species even 85 years after heavy cutting. Under one popular management scheme--clearcutting on an 80 year rotation--there is potential for substantial species loss.
  44. Clearcuts invite invasion by exotic species such as kudzu, privet, multiflora rose, ailanthus and others, There species have excellent seed dispersal mechanisms, grow vigorously in openings, and are only controlled by expensive and toxic means, once established.
  45. What happens to the fertility of hardwood forest land clearcut after one cutting? Please comment on carbon and microbiotic losses to sunlight, changes in cation/anion balance, change in moisture content, underground migration of nutrients. What happens to the fertility of forest land after several successive clearcuts? Do clearcuts leave surrounding forests more vulnerable to edge effects such as crown loss, wind shake and penetration by invasive exotic species? Are these species such as kudzu, privet, multiflora rose, ailanthus and others more likely to grow in openings made by clearcuts? "Overmaturity" is said by Tennessee State Forest authorities to be the "greatest threat to our forest". Please comment.
  46. What are the impacts of agro-forestry (pine plantations) on the health of the surrounding ecosystem, viz. water quality, toxic chemicals, migratory birds etc.? What are the effects of intensive timber extraction on soil fertility?
  47. Even though the scale of reforestation efforts should factor into calculations of "sustainability", this does not translate into ecological maintenance or restoration of habitats.
  48. Can trees continue to be grown as a crop using the kind of intensive management that is most common?
  49. What is the impact on the soil of replacing a diverse hardwood forest with a monoculture pine plantation?
  50. What is the impact on fuel load buildup and potential fire hazard of replacing a diverse hardwood forest with a monoculture pine plantation?
  51. What is the impact of disease on a monoculture pine plantation as opposed to a mixed hardwood forest?
  52. What is the difference in the type of forest that regenerates from a clearcut (stump sprouts, etc.) as opposed to one that regenerates from selective harvest?
  53. What has caused the change in the definition of what a "mature forest" is from the historically much older definitions used in the past to the current definitions of hardwood cut on an 80 year rotation and pines cut on 30-40 year rotation, and how is this impacting the industry?
  54. What are the potential side effects of increased pine conversion: pesticide, herbicides and fertilization?
  55. The effect of intensive timber harvest on soil fertility and productivity. The impact of monoculture plantations, shortened rotations, and increased clearcutting on the sustainability and ecological diversity of southeastern forests.
  56. How much of the clearcut hardwood forests are left to regenerate naturally and how much is replanted in native and nonnative hybrids or species? How successful in terms of tree survival, species diversity and composition are these methods of forest regeneration in areas that have been cleared one or two times in the past?
  57. What degree of forest harvest and wood using industries can exist before it begins to detract from the development of potentially more valuable industries? Has this conflict point already been reached or when will it be reached?
  58. On the Western Highland Rim of TN it looks like fewer people are holding onto their forest land and maintaining them as forests by selectively cutting as in the past. Economic pressures are forcing more people to cut their forest land, with clearcutting as the predominant mode of harvesting. Less land is being replanted in pine in our area, which is for the best. Regeneration at least will eventually produce the natural hardwoods again, although it is difficult to say if it will be the same forest as before clearcutting. Some local land trust work is protecting large forests through ownership, conservation easements, and cooperative management. We need a lot more of this.
  59. In Arkansas, forest management has obliterated the forest. I took my wife on a drive several years ago to show her where I hunted as a boy. I cried! When I saw thousands of acres of hillsides without a single tree left standing. This is unacceptable!
  60. To date the practices of tree farming in the South have posed a great threat to maintaining healthy ecosystems. Monoculture has created weaken gene pools in tree species making the susceptible to disease and more vulnerable to fires, soil erosion, storm damage, etc. Songbird declines are in evidence in part due to the trend towards monoculture in forestry.
  61. What is the whole effect of the shorter growth time before harvest and clear-cutting on mature forest dependent species? What will the effect of loss of private forest have on the small amount of public forest land?
  62. New? How about the ancient 'technology' of silviculture? Clearcutting and high-grading should be considered old-school harmful technologies.
  63. The study should evaluate the effects of what the continued shift of the forest products industry to the Southeast will be in terms of ecological sustainability and non-timber economic well being in the future as it continues.
  64. My own family property once involved in plant crop production is now entirely in long leaf pine production. It is a renewable crop much like the food crops which we once Shepherd. Similar, except now we have a longer growing curve, but wit practice of efficient forestry practices will benefit wildlife, and have a continuing forest resource forever.
  65. In a single year, one chip mill can potentially cut 10,000 acres of forest. Pine forests are not natural!
  66. These [pine] plantations have 95-99% fewer species than a natural forests.
  67. History has resulted in tremendous losses of bottomland hardwood forests.
  68. I feel strongly that our forests are not being re-grown at an appropriate rate, and chip mill use only increases this uneven cut/grow ratio.
  69. The proliferation of industrial-scale chip mills is having too great of a negative impact upon our landscape, both forests and water quality.
  70. The Forest Service should prepare a comprehensive Southeast Forest Management Assessment to look at the environmental impacts of both the mills and the clearcutting practices. After years of intensive traditional logging, the hardwood forests of the Southeast have begun to recover. This is no time to escalate the destruction of these forests.
  71. Request that actions be taken to protect southern forests by not allowing any new industrial chip-mills to be built until further information is known about the impact it will have on the forest.
  72. Why do corporations get to mill an entire forest for profit and then leave, when its obvious that they should pursue a RENEWABLE methods for forest industries.
  73. We would like to see a slow down of the cutting of trees and an incentive to encourage diversity in tree planting. It would be nice to see more real forests as we drive through our Southern States and less clear cuts and tree farms.
  74. Chipmills destroy 10,000 acres of forest each year. They encourage clearcuts which result in monoculture pine plantations which have 90%-95% less space than a natural forest.
  75. We are losing a heritage in hardwoods, beautiful oaks, poplars, maples, hickorys, and all, to their replacements, a monoculture of pine trees, plantations of them!
  76. Our native forests will become tree farms, as they have become in Europe. We will need to fertilize the forests to create the timber products that our country relies on. This will lead to higher costs and pollution.
  77. I wanted to be sure to register my concern at the proliferation of chip mills in the southeast. I strongly urge the Forest Service to have a moratorium on the construction of chip mills for at least five years.
  78. How many rotations of biomass harvests can the typical pine farm/desert in the southeast sustain before growth rates diminish to non-productive lands? How much time is needed to recover soil fertility once depletion has occurred? Please address the differences in sustainability of native long-leaf pine communities vs. man-made pine deserts. How much of the long-leaf pine ecosystem will be allowed to survive?
  79. Fertilization of plantation soils is increasing. What are the implications to soil ecosystem health from unnatural levels of macro-nutrient applications. Address the effect of chemical fertilizers and biocides on the living components of soil ecosystems and expected recovery times post-assault.
  80. On the Western Highland Rim of TN it looks like fewer people are holding onto their forest land and maintaining them as forests by selectively cutting as in the past. Economic pressures are forcing more people to cut their forest land, with clearcutting as the predominant mode of harvesting. Less land is being replanted in pine in our area, which is for the best. Regeneration at least will eventually produce the natural hardwoods again, although it is difficult to say if it will be the same forest as before clearcutting. Some local land trust work is protecting large forests through ownership, conservation easements, and cooperative management. We need a lot more of this.
  81. What are age class distribution and the spatial relationship of these types?
  82. Reforestation efforts in the south have been very successful and this serves as an example that reforestation can work.
  83. What are the positive effects of intensive forest management?
  84. Define terrestrial at a finer definition other than by forest type. Do not use broad forest types that leave out specific hardwood tree species groups.
  85. What hardwood community is the USFS referring to in the FIA data when speaking about hardwood growth exceeds removals? Should narrow species classifications to smaller hardwood groups then report the data results?
  86. Will the available data allow for distinction between native forest types and highly managed forest types?
  87. Define timber land. Stated there was little change since 1950s; this may not include native hardwood losses.
  88. Future impacts of silvicultural activities on wildlife habitat.
  89. Need analysis on how forest management improves wildlife habitat
  90. How can management play a positive role in the future of forest-dependent wildlife?
  91. What are the short- and long-term impacts on wildlife (including non-game birds, threatened/endangered species, and game animals) of maximizing forest management activities in a river basin or watershed?
  92. Age of forests is important. Are we managing adequately to ensure adequate representation of all forest age classes?
  93. What is the effect of vegetation removal from a tract of land on that tract's soil (nutrients, soil mobility, etc.)?
  94. What are cumulative effects of shortened relations; increased clearcutting on species of plants?
  95. Animals that depend on mature forest habitat.
  96. Look at forest management practices by timber companies: specifically complete clearcutting and use of toxic herbicides in regards to destruction of wildlife habitat.
  97. Retention of contiguous, native forests. Protection of streamside buffers. Emphasis on development from within urban areas rather than from without (land valuation causes sprawl). Timber harvest must be limited to BMPs reflecting selective cutting.
  98. The assessment team needs to address how forest management vs. no forest management enhances and sustains biodiversity.
  99. What are the cumulative impacts of all management, i.e. agriculture, timber?
  100. In addition to ownership (item 1 above), evaluate forest age classes by forest type (e.g., plantation, wilderness, etc.).
  101. How can exotic species by controlled?
  102. What future habitat changes will occur as a result of changes in plant/tree species as a result of changes in plant/tree species distribution and frequency, caused by clearcutting and conversion to monoculture pine plantations.
  103. How have shortened rotations, increased clear-cuts, and increased acreages of monocultures (especially pines) affected forest-dependent species? Give at least as much weight/attention to species adversely affected as given to those affected positively or relatively little.
  104. What are the cumulative and synergistic effects of roads, shortened rotations, increased clear-cutting, and increased use of forest monocultures on forest-dependent wildlife?
  105. Differentiate between a natural forest and a managed forest.
  106. Endangered species and forest management – is there an effect on one by the other? What relationship exists? Are they negative/positive?
  107. Interaction of different management techniques on adjoining lands.
  108. How can we maintain existing public lands and acquire more lands for the public?
  109. The Corps of Engineers has inundated thousands of acres of forest land as a result of past practices and these losses have to be mitigated for. Those mitigation lands should be forested and used for sustainable yield forestry. In the foresting of these lands, some species should be planted for the purpose of harvesting and some should be planted for wildlife benefits. These areas that could be harvested would provide jobs to local loggers. In addition, management plans should be written for these lands.
  110. Impacts of old forest to young forest (i.e. shorter rotation lengths, species monoculture)?
  111. Effects of rotation and species composition on species populations – past and present comparisons. Partners in Flight may have information.
  112. Some segments of the timber industry are looking to manage for short rotation - how can we encourage the market for long-rotation timber products?
  113. Clearcutting reduces protection for surrounding forestlands as a result of severe storms, etc. Look at how land owners forest lands are affected by timber harvesting practices.
  114. Forest management varies greatly in the south because of ownership patterns (89% of land base in private ownership).
  115. Effect of logging on previously strip-mined areas - destabilizing?
  116. FS doesn't want to recognize ``old growth'' as a valuable commodity - it is valuable biologically and we should protect existing old growth and manage for additional old growth.
  117. How have forest management and natural disasters (e.g., Chestnut blight) influenced current forest condition?
  118. How do taxes and other regulatory measures impact forest management practices?
  119. What is the impact of the Tree Farm Program across the South?
  120. Assess overall increased productivity of forestland from incentive programs and land-use changes!
  121. Assess the impact of non-industrial private forest landowners educational programs.
  122. Assess the overall impact of wildlife practices on forest management practices!
  123. Fertilization/Improved genetics and tech applied to (non-industrial private forests) NIPF.
  124. What is the public perception of loggers?
  125. How does management practices by the different ownerships affect forest resource outputs?
  126. How do taxes and other regulatory measures impact forest management practices?
  127. What is the impact of the Tree Farm Program across the South?
  128. Identify opportunities for intensive forest management.
  129. Assess the overall impact of ongoing Sustainable Forestry Initiatives (SFI) around the country!
  130. More fiber on fewer acres, more Science
  131. Rules and regulations have a cost.
  132. What are the states and trends of Best Management Practices?
  133. What trends for NIPF to practice intrusive management?
  134. Check with AF & PA -past data on harvest practices
  135. Evaluate future trends in positive economics to grow trees.
  136. Project changing impacts on timber supply.
  137. What impacts of “certified” wood products?
  138. How much product loss from unavailable parts of forest
  139. Identify new technology. Where is research?
  140. Can data be offered at River Basin?
  141. Assess benefits and costs of SFI.
  142. What is the current status? How many are joining F.L.A.?
  143. What is the effect of BMP’s? Is there data?
  144. How will non-timber uses influence forest management?
  145. How much effect of voluntary BMP’s on landowner willingness to harvest timber?
  146. Assess legislative and policy decisions affecting forestry on Federal, State and local level.
  147. Assess pressure for certified timber and cost relationships.
  148. “Chain of Custody.” Is it economical?
  149. Will intensive management give opportunity for other/special land uses/management?
  150. Look for opportunity for enhanced forest management techniques and other site impacts.
  151. Consider forest management in other area of the U.S. and world.
  152. What are practices 10 years ago vs. today?
  153. What is the loss of quality with move to fast growing species?
  154. What influence will SFI have on forest management in the South?
  155. What are the yields of management practices? By landowner class? By type of management?
  156. Monoculture, clearcuts, up-scale equipment, and shorter growth cycle times seem to be the trends.
  157. Kind mind? How do other agencies manage for other uses? What is the trend?
  158. Major focus of assessment should be toward NIPF since they own the majority of the land.
  159. What is future role of Federal incentive programs? What kind of acres might be involved?
  160. Look at potential productivity of the different land classes.
  161. Geographic differences across South - a factor?
  162. What are differences among sub-regional trends and why (re: landowners)?
  163. What is difference between government land management and private land management?
  164. Break it down by ownership: Intensity; Industry (break this category down); Government (break this category down, e.g., NPS, NFS); NIPF (by incentive program impacts). Evaluate impacts of incentives programs on forest management.
  165. Look at impact of other industries such as poultry waste being applied to forest land.
  166. Stratify NIPF by land size class - has impact on availability of material to the marketplace (relate to issue #1).
  167. Evaluate differing management objectives of different land ownership classes or groups and impact.
  168. Look at impacts of industry-initiated programs such as SFI program.
  169. Look at regulatory programs and their impacts on forest management.
  170. Need to figure out the tradeoff of intensive management on a few acres vs. extensive management on a lot of acres.
  171. What are the beneficial or detrimental impacts of forest management?
  172. Evaluate the extent of NIPF lands that are not being reforested after harvest.
  173. What is the difference in management practices by ownership size? Fragmentation causing problem.
  174. Evaluate role of the southern hemisphere in world markets and what part the Southeast U.S. plays. Give consideration to the potential that the southern hemisphere will pass up Southeast U.S. in production.
  175. What would the South landscape look like today if there weren’t any market for wood products?
  176. How has forest management and harvest by the USFS impacted PNIFLOs?
  177. What is the classification of forest lands by ownership, respective acres, average ownership size, and land use or management objective?
  178. Wood chipping – how does this effect forest management (i.e. more clearcutting)?
  179. How does timber management affect wildlife, aesthetics, and recreation?
  180. How much clearcutting is being done on a regional scale?
  181. How does the public view timber management?
  182. How has forest management changed over time?
  183. What is the number of tracts by class size for NIPFLO properties?
  184. How has regulations and policies affected forest resources? (i.e. CRP, taxes, etc)
  185. What are the accomplishments by the private sector thru forest mgmt?
  186. What are the trends by PNIFLOs in management of their lands?
  187. How are forest mgmt practices enhancing growth versus where other forest uses are being managed?
  188. Assess the overall increased productivity of forestland by incentive programs as well as land-use changes.
  189. Assess the impact of non-industrial private forest landowners educational programs.
  190. Assess the overall impact of wildlife practices on forest management practices!
  191. Assess the overall impact of ongoing Sustainable Forestry Initiatives (SFI) around the country!
  192. Discuss the variation among state forestry programs.
  193. Discuss the effect of intensive clear cutting and conversion to soft wood plantations on jobs in the hardwood sectors of the industry.
  194. Discuss trends toward mechanization and loss of jobs in the industry.
  195. Discuss Tenn-Tom waterway and the future of forests affected by it.
  196. Discuss the change in the species composition on hardwood cut sites.
  197. How many rotations before fertilizer and herbicides affect water quality.
  198. Describe differences between native forests and pine plantations, and include herbaceous plant communities and impacts.
  199. How many acres are managed by professional foresters and how many without?
  200. Discuss education programs for landowners.
  201. Describe job losses to foreign markets for each segment of the forest industry including harvesting and product development.
  202. Discuss diseases and pests associated with imported products.
  203. Discuss transportation costs for overseas markets associated with exports and imports.
  204. Describe trends in non industry land ownership as to artificial regeneration verses natural regeneration and trends toward pine plantations.
  205. Describe kinds of management practices on non-industrial forest lands and discuss trends.
  206. What do folks want and what are they being told?
  207. Discuss trends in recycling (e.g., recycled paper) and affects on forest resources.
  208. Discuss need for more regulations to prevent erosion and flooding associated with heavy clear cutting; example: Dickerson County, Tennessee - Pittston Coal Co. Into pulpwood harvesting - recent heavy flooding and erosion; ten thousand acres harvested per year per chip mill in Tennessee
  209. Discuss supply side loss of timber from public lands and changing political landscape as commercial logging is ended on public lands.
  210. Discuss urban forestry as a source of timber products.
  211. Discuss the multiple uses of national forests including wildlife habitat, biodiversity, recreation and wetland habitat.
  212. Describe the status of new extraction activities on national forest lands.

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